An Open Reply
I had an interesting comment on yesterdays post, so I thought I'd reply openly...
Rich said...
I was pointed in the direction of your Blog by a friend and Id like to say that as a 100% patriotic American some of your entries though amusing, show an extremely bias anti-American view point.
However I consider myself Liberal, open minded and Christian and though I do not particularly enjoy what is written here about my Country, I do find it frequently more difficult to justify the actions of its current Administration and the proclamations of its religious far right.
Though I would like to also say that the United Kingdom has almost the same current issues youve pointed out as America.
Thanks
Rich
My Reply
Hi Rich, thanx for popping by, your friends got taste ;o)
Ummm... An 'Extremely Bias anti-American view point'? Moi? No never ;o)
OK OK maybe just a tad, but please allow me to retort...
The good old US of A is in a position where England was during the late 19th Century, world domination... Back then the phrase was 'Make the World English', now the phrase is 'Make the world American', whether that is intentional or not, that's what your policies and philosophies dictate will happen, if only for self preservation of your culture.
But the world has changed in the last few Centuries, its shrunk and unfortunately 'Living the American Dream' means that Americans require a 100% belief that their system of 'Democracy' is right and that their social structure is the best way for any society to exist, but this is the problem.
An example of this issue might be the recent news that since the Invasion in Iraq over 650,000 civilians have lost there life due to the troubles. This is far more than the estimated numbers even killed while Saddam was in power and all because of what? Oil? Power? Or blind ignorance that imposing a form of democracy on a society which is primarily tribal doesn't work. We know this; we tried countless times in African countries that we abandoned after the Empire. Its just not their peoples way, democracy will not succeed in Iraq as much as it will in Afghanistan, you can't change the way a society is structured.
Furthermore what gives us the right to believe that the democratic way of living is right for others? 650,000 people in Iraq alone would disagree with your philosophy, if they could. How many more innocent people must pay the price for American arrogance and insecurity after 'A mere' 2752 deaths in 9/11? What does your conscience say is an acceptable level of innocent people that can die in retribution in the 'War on Terror'? So far in Iraq alone that means 236 civilians have died for each and every American killed in 9/11, can you really justify that to yourself? If you can then can you imagine justifying that to their families?
Ahhh... but it's a 'War on Terror', but it's not is it. It's a 'War on Philosophy' and if Vietnam taught you anything, it should have taught you that you can't beat a man protecting his family, his country or an ideal with brute force. The only way to win the 'War on Terror' is to start talking with these people, they actually don't want much, in fact far less than both you and I take for granted in our own societies, just some form of control over the own destinies, give these people hope.
Yes their maybe a handful of extremists, every culture has them, even ours, the Christian far right again spring to mind in ours, what are they if nothing more than facsimiles of Islamic fundamentalists with a different God?
As for England having the same issues as the US, your right, we do. But alas that's because we are nothing more than the latest new State of America, its puppet, its slave. And if you want an example of how difficult it is for any western country to go against American policy then look how America and the rest of the west treated France when it chose not to back the Iraq war.
As I said earlier, the world is getting smaller, but someday we're all gonna have to try getting on together in forming a single united global society. The American xenophobic stance means this can't happen at present; in fact the reverse is true.
But my gut feeling is that unless we all unite as one world, we will all perish alone, whether that's through environmental issues, war or famine and that's why I'm anti-American. You have the power and the influence to change the whole world for the better, but choose only to protect your own way of living instead of seeing the bigger picture and daring to dream the big dream. You know the Big Dream I mean Rich, it's the one Miss America always says she wants, "World Peace", and you don't aquire that with a gun.
Ciao Ciao
Confused From Chichester
I BLOG There4 I Am
Rich said...
I was pointed in the direction of your Blog by a friend and Id like to say that as a 100% patriotic American some of your entries though amusing, show an extremely bias anti-American view point.
However I consider myself Liberal, open minded and Christian and though I do not particularly enjoy what is written here about my Country, I do find it frequently more difficult to justify the actions of its current Administration and the proclamations of its religious far right.
Though I would like to also say that the United Kingdom has almost the same current issues youve pointed out as America.
Thanks
Rich
My Reply
Hi Rich, thanx for popping by, your friends got taste ;o)
Ummm... An 'Extremely Bias anti-American view point'? Moi? No never ;o)
OK OK maybe just a tad, but please allow me to retort...
The good old US of A is in a position where England was during the late 19th Century, world domination... Back then the phrase was 'Make the World English', now the phrase is 'Make the world American', whether that is intentional or not, that's what your policies and philosophies dictate will happen, if only for self preservation of your culture.
But the world has changed in the last few Centuries, its shrunk and unfortunately 'Living the American Dream' means that Americans require a 100% belief that their system of 'Democracy' is right and that their social structure is the best way for any society to exist, but this is the problem.
An example of this issue might be the recent news that since the Invasion in Iraq over 650,000 civilians have lost there life due to the troubles. This is far more than the estimated numbers even killed while Saddam was in power and all because of what? Oil? Power? Or blind ignorance that imposing a form of democracy on a society which is primarily tribal doesn't work. We know this; we tried countless times in African countries that we abandoned after the Empire. Its just not their peoples way, democracy will not succeed in Iraq as much as it will in Afghanistan, you can't change the way a society is structured.
Furthermore what gives us the right to believe that the democratic way of living is right for others? 650,000 people in Iraq alone would disagree with your philosophy, if they could. How many more innocent people must pay the price for American arrogance and insecurity after 'A mere' 2752 deaths in 9/11? What does your conscience say is an acceptable level of innocent people that can die in retribution in the 'War on Terror'? So far in Iraq alone that means 236 civilians have died for each and every American killed in 9/11, can you really justify that to yourself? If you can then can you imagine justifying that to their families?
Ahhh... but it's a 'War on Terror', but it's not is it. It's a 'War on Philosophy' and if Vietnam taught you anything, it should have taught you that you can't beat a man protecting his family, his country or an ideal with brute force. The only way to win the 'War on Terror' is to start talking with these people, they actually don't want much, in fact far less than both you and I take for granted in our own societies, just some form of control over the own destinies, give these people hope.
Yes their maybe a handful of extremists, every culture has them, even ours, the Christian far right again spring to mind in ours, what are they if nothing more than facsimiles of Islamic fundamentalists with a different God?
As for England having the same issues as the US, your right, we do. But alas that's because we are nothing more than the latest new State of America, its puppet, its slave. And if you want an example of how difficult it is for any western country to go against American policy then look how America and the rest of the west treated France when it chose not to back the Iraq war.
As I said earlier, the world is getting smaller, but someday we're all gonna have to try getting on together in forming a single united global society. The American xenophobic stance means this can't happen at present; in fact the reverse is true.
But my gut feeling is that unless we all unite as one world, we will all perish alone, whether that's through environmental issues, war or famine and that's why I'm anti-American. You have the power and the influence to change the whole world for the better, but choose only to protect your own way of living instead of seeing the bigger picture and daring to dream the big dream. You know the Big Dream I mean Rich, it's the one Miss America always says she wants, "World Peace", and you don't aquire that with a gun.
Ciao Ciao
Confused From Chichester
I BLOG There4 I Am
Thoughts of Fletch @ 7:15 am
At 10:33 am, 
gemmak said...
At 11:59 am, 
said...
At 9:25 pm, Fletch said...
At 7:17 pm, Fletch said...
At 4:41 pm, Lisa said...
At 9:59 am, Fletch said...
6Comments:
Ok...so I'm way out of my league here, politics ain't my thing but this:
"that unless we all unite as one world, we will all perish alone" I agree is sadly very close to the truth and with my limited knowledge of US policy I would guess that the consequences will be sooner rather than later :o(
Whilst not having a problem with most of your open reply, maybe in your enthusiasm and usual eloquence you have slightly missed Rich's pointly, politely put, that knocking national policy/politics and tarring a nation with the same brush are different things (apathy and inertia by the public in any country isn't enough excuse to bracket them all with their administrations)
I'm the first to own up to having made lazy, generalised anti-American remarks in my time, but the two US citizens I know best would always pick me up on it (one actively protested against Vietnam war at the time, the other against Iraq action more recently)and I certainly recall being on the receiving end of repeated understandable abuse in Spain at the time of the indefensible Falklands War, because people mistook my nationality for my unanimity with all Maggie's policies. So rant away at US policy but recognise the danger of tipping over into stereotyping- we know you've a big heart and it's in the right place so don't let it stop bleeding but be careful who you lash out at in case you end up sounding as bigoted as those you rightly chastise!
Sent with love to you for caring so deeply on so many issues and respect to Rich for responding civilly and with equanimity
Gem Baby: Ahhh... Welcome aboard the Politics boat babe :o) Only remember one thing, if you believe something, honesty and sincerely, then its right. Maybe only for you, but hey, what does that matter, 256 shades of Grey :o)
Isabelnecessaryonamotorbike: Ummm... OK so you got me thinking about your comments, to much I must say, and thanx for the love and kind words about my bleeding heart, you got a plaster? ;o)
Everyone has faults, and one of my major ones might well be as you've pointed out, my far too often ability to over generalise or as I might well of done on this entry over personalise, sorry Rich, no offence intended... (But you could move to Canada, though not the French bit ;o) )
And am I a bigot? I can't answer that, maybe I am, maybe I'm not, to close to the issue because it just makes me so mad...
So anyway in the interest of regaining some poise I researched a Few US Polls to get some statistical evidence on this matter and try to balance my beliefs a little...
A recent poll asking, "Do you think the U.S. made the right decision or the wrong decision in using military force against Iraq" came out in support of 'The Wrong Decision', 47% against 45% for 'Right' and 8% 'Unsure', which I guess supports your conclusions. (Though I agree your premise was actually not to confuse people with policy...)
Well until you look at the Polls conducted just before the Iraq invasion which showed that 83% of the American people were behind military action in Iraq, and that's what I'm attacking, the American insular, 'Gun Ho', live for today philosophy and approach. Not just their administration, the average US individual is virtually incapable of any form of long term deliberations on course and effect.
83% of the US population believed it was acceptable to charge half way around the world and start a war, in the search for mythical WMD's taking out a few Terrorists on route and to cause abject misery for countless millions of civilians in the process... (A fact that without any hindsight was always going to happen, always, war has this affect on civilian populations, especially ones left in a power vacuum...)
OK so maybe the problem is ignorance, but is that any excuse? If you choose to watch the pulp news channels of CNN, Fox or alike instead of a more balance media source (of which there are many available), then I'm sorry I can't accept unawareness as an excuse. We're talking about 650,000 civilian deaths in Iraq since the end of the "War".
Shit, think about that number again... That's 650,000 innocent individuals, almost as many people as were murdered by the Nazis in the Treblinka extermination camp during WWII, is ignorance any excuse for this level of death and destruction? And what's maybe more concerning is that 45% of Americans still believe this is an acceptable price to pay in the lose of blameless human life... for what? Well we all know what for, it's a threat to their country, our country, coursed by decades of extremely bad foreign policy, dominated by greed and power. These 45% still believe there own administrations propaganda FFS and have mixed it with some twisted form of revenge and Pride...
OK so maybe your friends where in the original 17% who weren't in favour of military action or were unsure about it, I don't know... But I do know how history will write this event, and it won't be a favourable account for America or us.
And as for the now 47% of the Americans that are against the "War" now, just stand up and be counted, please... 650,000 innocent people died already, thats more than the total population of Vermont!
Apathy: n.
1. Lack of interest or concern, especially regarding matter of general importance or appeal; indifference.
2.Lack of emotion of feeling; impassiveness
Quis custodiet ipos custodes...? No-one, they get away with murder :o/
OK agreed, I'd never make it in the diplomatic corp ;o)
Thanx for your comment Isabel, made me think :o)
Ciao Ciao
Lisa baby : Good question on the Government issue... Odd thing about my Government is they actually went to war in Iraq knowing that nearly the majority of people in the UK were against it. From that point onward Tony's demise was imminent, this is the real reason he's resigning as Prime Minister, and my prediction why his Party will not regain power in the next election, a complete lose of trust by the general public. (Jesus were doomed, their natural opposition Conservative party are even a bigger bunch of Muppets than the current lot!)
So I do believe that the will of the people can change Government policy, you did it on Civil Rights, Vietnam etc.etc. (OK OK, so don't start holding your breath just yet ;o) )
As for Americans being from a different planet, know I don't think they are, well unless your surname is "Bush" and you've mutated a brain into an ar*ehole ;o) Also, I've never ever meet one of your countryman I didn't really like... Just most tend to believe the "World" is America (There's 5 non Americans out here for each one of you).
Ohhh... And I know everyone has issues, honest, I do, you do, everyone has... But in Global terms although they might well seem massive to us, there insignificant compared to the tens of millions of people each and every day who are just struggling to stay alive :o(
And here's an interesting fact... Bill Gates has more wealth than the bottom 45% of American households combined... Makes you wonder done it...
Ciao 4 now :o)
Yes, I'm waiting for my check from Bill.
I've long thought that the monetary system itself is bogus. I would like to do away with money altogether, but I keep being told that no one would do anything anymore. We'd just sit around watching TV. You know.. if there still WAS TV.
Lisa : We'll make a hippy out of you yet ;o)
Ciao Caio
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